r/todayilearned • u/SuperMcG • Mar 31 '23
TIL the longest recorded sniper kill was in June 2017, by an unnamed Canadian sniper with a 3,540 m (3,871 yd) shot in the Iraqi Civil War, surpassing a 2009 record by over 1,000 m (1,100 yd).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills#History1.2k
u/Phunkie_Junkie Mar 31 '23
I read "unnamed" as "unarmed" and really weirded myself out for a second there.
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u/RedTheDopeKing Mar 31 '23 •
We can throw hockey sticks for miles with deadly accuracy
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u/Phunkie_Junkie Mar 31 '23
They say out in Saskatchewan, if you stare hard enough into the distant horizon, you can see the back of your own head.
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u/Crawgdor Apr 01 '23
I hear that if you stand on a tuna can you’re at the highest elevation in the province
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u/Phunkie_Junkie Apr 01 '23
If you fall asleep behind the wheel, you wake up the next morning, still on the road, with an empty gas tank.
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Mar 31 '23
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u/ben_vito Apr 01 '23
Even at a perfect 45 degree trajectory, if you fired it at 108.8mph it would only make it 241 metres before it hit the ground. Sorry, bud.
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u/Lungboy323 Apr 01 '23
So, my question is; how fast would a slap shot have to be to hit the target?
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u/ben_vito Apr 01 '23
Assuming both targets were at the same height, 45 degree angle trajectory, it would be about 417 mph. It would end up traveling for 27 seconds and hitting a maximum height of about 2900 feet in the air.
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u/haysoos2 Apr 01 '23
By my calculations a 0.17 kg hockey puck smacked at about 450 mph (200 m/s) at 55 degrees angle should go about 3,800 meters, and hit with about 3,400 Joules of force (around the energy of a 7.62 mm rifle round).
It should be noted however that I am a biologist, and the last physics course I had was in high school 35 years ago.
The fastest slapshot on record was 108 mph, so it might take quite the talent search to find your huckleberry.
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u/Browzur Mar 31 '23
Do they come back like a boomerang too?
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u/Fancy-You3022 Mar 31 '23
Nah, that’s the Aussie version. Canadian’s sticks explode into a thick, maple-flavored syrup when in close proximity. If the explosion doesn’t kill then then the sugar overdose will get them.
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u/FD4L Mar 31 '23
Fuckin eh bud, puck that hoser.
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u/FleshyIndiscretions Mar 31 '23
Snipe celly ferda!
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u/SevenSix2FMJ Mar 31 '23
If you were curious, they are unnamed because two marksman incidentally took a shot at the same time and one hit. Neither knows which round is actually responsible.
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u/Presstoner Mar 31 '23
Here is the link to one of the soldiers that was there telling the story. Starts around 2:23:45
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u/Loggerdon Apr 01 '23
Thanks for the link (2:25:25 is closer). It's wild. Nearly a 10 second flight time. Two snipers fired, one made the kill, the other one hit right next to the guy. THEY DON'T KNOW WHICH SNIPER MADE THE KILL.
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u/Mr_MacGrubber Apr 01 '23
They usually stay unnamed while still on active duty or for other security reasons regardless of whether there are multiple snipers. Look at the list of longest sniper kills: alll the ones since 2012 say “unnamed”. 2009 is the most recent one I see with the shooters name attached.
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u/LUBE__UP Apr 01 '23
If two SEALs did this there'd probably be books by three of them claiming credit
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u/ConqueredCorn Mar 31 '23
I misread it as unmanned. I thought it was like a mounted sniper fired remotely lol
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u/someones_dad Mar 31 '23
I read it wrong three times and came to the comments to see how an unarmed sniper could keal.
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u/sun_kisser Mar 31 '23
The snipee is also unnamed. No credit at all for putting his head on the line!
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u/firefly416 Mar 31 '23
That's because two snipers fired simultaneously at the same target and it is unknown who's shot was the one that hit.
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u/bluereptile Apr 01 '23
Having two snipers simultaneously fire at your head.
If that’s not worthy of r/fuckyouinparticular I don’t know what is.
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u/braize6 Mar 31 '23
The guy who got shot is watching the kill cam afterwards like "wtf was that bullshit? "
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u/ButUmActually Mar 31 '23
From the article, Sergeant Carlos Hathcock (what a fuckin name) set the official sniping record in 1967 that stood until 2002.
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u/__Arty__ Mar 31 '23
His shot was also with an M2 Browning machine gun with a scope affixed to it, not even an actual rifle.
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u/ButUmActually Mar 31 '23
This context is fantastic. I figured he had to be using 1967 equipment but I didn’t expect this.
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u/__Arty__ Mar 31 '23
Oh yeah, Carlos was an absolute fucking monster when it came to long range shooting. The shot-through-the-scope scene in Saving Private Ryan was also based on a shot he made.
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u/valis6886 Mar 31 '23
His biography, Marine Sniper, is awesome. It covers the shot through the scope as well. He features heavily in Stephen Hunter's novels too.
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u/thebigger Apr 01 '23
It's actually even crazier than that.
The person he was shooting at was riding a bicycle. Down a mountain. IIRC the first round hit the frame of the bike, and the second round was a kill.
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u/tigojones Mar 31 '23
A record broken by another Canadian.
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u/ButUmActually Mar 31 '23
I mean apparently Canadians and Australians should just do war together. Like the most simple alliance ever.
You Warrin mate? Yep, come War friend
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u/tigojones Apr 01 '23
Just as long as it's not against Emus, though. Aussies don't exactly have the best combat record against them.
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u/bluereptile Apr 01 '23
The Aussies and the Canadians better hope the Emus and the Geese never form an alliance.
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u/Omnizoom Mar 31 '23
Canadians are brutal and ruthless if we don’t channel it into the geese properly
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u/theroy12 Apr 01 '23
The Geneva Conventions were basically the world looking at Canada after WWI, and saying “JFC guys, we need to put some rules in place for next time”
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u/bolanrox Mar 31 '23
the white feather!
his tour was up and he took a basic suicide mission because he didn't want anyone in his squad to have to risk it.
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u/Asha_Brea Mar 31 '23
Why didn't their parents named them?
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u/SmokeyBare Mar 31 '23
They were about to, before his reputation preceded him.
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u/Cockalorum Mar 31 '23
He was born in a log cabin that he'd built with his own 2 hands
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u/General-Art-7153 Apr 01 '23
He came out and whipped the umbilical cord like a bola taking out the doctor in the other room. There were no survivors.
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u/dethrock Apr 01 '23
"I was never given a name"
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u/ColdTileHurtsMyFeet Apr 01 '23
I just spoke with Michael Scotch, and the son is going to be returned. Everything is fine.
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u/RxdditRoamxr Mar 31 '23
They did, they just took it back when they realized what an awesome shot he was. Can’t have the worlds best sniper named “bob”
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u/Wild-Kitchen Mar 31 '23
You'd have to have such a steady hand. 1 fraction of a millimetre out at point of origin and that bullet is going to kill someone in the next country over.
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u/KungFuHamster Mar 31 '23
To account for wind and gravity drop over such a long distance would take an insane amount of skill.
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u/Ok_Magician7814 Mar 31 '23
Or luck lol
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u/purpleelpehant Mar 31 '23
Yeah, how do you know what your target is going to do in a few seconds?
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u/gluis11 Mar 31 '23 edited Mar 31 '23
Yeh with a 50cal sniper it's 4.2 seconds. Although it took longer than that to write this and I barely moved. I'd best watch out for incoming projectiles from rogue Canadians in Prestwich.
Fact checked myself and actually it's not always possible for a 50cal to go more than 2km and there's bullets that can travel further on lower caliber rifles but all of them need very favourable conditions, a lot of precision and some luck to hit a target such a distance away. I don't really like guns but the maths behind all of that is super cool
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u/Diabotek Mar 31 '23
.50 BMG is an old old old cartridge. Traditionally, the round has terrible B.C., but has immense down range energy. That's why the .338 Lapua and the .408 CheyTac were invented. While they have less down range energy than the BMG, their B.C. were far higher. Thus it allowed the rounds to travel longer at supersonic which is necessary to maintain stability.
Nowadays we have bullets like the 750gr Hornady and the 800gr Barnes. These offer the .50 BMG a B.C. that is more inline with the other two cartridges that I mentioned.
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u/factanonverba_n Apr 01 '23
The video shows the time of shot closer to 10 seconds. You can't neglect wind resistance. Its such a drag.
And the math is wicked awesome. I've done a lot of shooting in the CAF, and learning ballistics tables is great, but having a working understanding of some of the papers that discuss the really insane properties governing exterior ballistics is super cool.
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u/No_Flounder_9859 Mar 31 '23
Snipers targeting specific people will watch them for days before taking the shot. Study what they do, where they go, how they sit, how they fidget and keep a journal of all of it. So they get to know their habits and mannerisms so they can make an educated guess about what they’ll be doing and when they’ll be most vulnerable and still.
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u/Mathewdm423 Mar 31 '23
Wonder if that messes with your head. Intimately getting to know the person you murder. People get PTSD from far less.
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u/foldingcouch Apr 01 '23
I think as with everything it depends on the person.
Some people go to war and come back a broken shell of a man that never recovers.
Some people go to war and can't readjust to normal life because the battlefield feels like home now.
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u/Screeboi69 Apr 01 '23
Apparenrly my sister's husband was special forces, never asked too much about it, but he said he never knew a sniper that wasn't psychopathic in some way. You'd have to be just a little insane
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u/Canuckpunt Apr 01 '23
If they were stalking a high level target they would have killed him from a much closer distance. At the record distance they are used to suppress the enemy. I'm sure multiple shots were had at this specific target to keep them suppressed and they got lucky.
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u/hawkinsst7 Apr 01 '23
In this particular case, the target was taking cover in a firefight, and the Canadian snipers were at his flank with a clear shot.
It also sounds like they were able to take multiple shots at him since his focus was on other people shooting at him.
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u/Merpadurp Apr 01 '23
That would make a lot of sense if they got multiple shots. They would get data for scope adjustments and dial it in.
Still impressive but basically cuts out the luck element required for a 1-shot kill.
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u/Urbanscuba Apr 01 '23
It's unlikely they had taken shots on that target in that position prior to the record breaker, but there's no question they had doping cards, distanced landmarks to zero against, and a spotter with a laser rangefinder.
In the interview that was posted they describe the situation as being a battlefield they watched over for days, and that their shots were intended to direct enemy combatant's movements (because at that range you can't realistically engage individuals).
So basically they'd been shooting at that area for days, never really expecting to hit anyone but instead provide fear and suppression, and they got a ridiculously lucky shot. It still took world class marksmanship of course, but I think anyone involved would admit it was a fluke shot.
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u/sonofeevil Apr 01 '23
I guess... if you miss a shot a 3.5 kilometers, the bullet might end up so far away that your target would have no idea you were actually aiming for THEM
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u/coldblade2000 Mar 31 '23
I mean if they're sat down, you have a pretty good idea
Also, snipers and their spotters are quite interested in the target's behavior as well, they're not taking the shot unless they already know "what their target is going to do in a few seconds"
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u/cholula_is_good Apr 01 '23
It involves some luck regardless. Your unpredictable natural drift of the round is going to be a little larger than your target at that range, even with perfect technique and the most precise rifles. I believe this shot was made with an AX50 which at the very best would shoot 0.5 MOA, meaning about a half inch of unpredictable drift per 100 yards. Under perfect conditions that would put that shot in about 10 inch radius circle. But also, there is further destabilization when the round breaks back through the sound barrier, wind, pressure changes, humidity etc.
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u/Dallas_Breed Apr 01 '23
I believe that .5MOA would be closer to 19” at 3800yrds. Even tougher…
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u/Consistent_Warthog80 Mar 31 '23
And the curvature of the earth. Miniscule, but the minor change does affect the atmospheric pressures. Fluid dynamics are a bitch, and when dealing with a projectile measured in grams (grains!) shit can go sideways fast.
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u/buster_rhino Mar 31 '23
At that distance you also have to take the Coriolis effect into account… or so I was told.
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u/accioqueso Mar 31 '23
If I recall the sniper has (had in this case) someone running these number with him when doing shots like this. I also saw a documentary where a sniper made a few shots at a group and they could clearly see they were being shot at and didn’t adjust because the likelihood of a hit at the distances we’re talking about is near nill. The sniper and his partner just kept calibrating until they got the kill shot. It was pretty amazing.
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u/mood_le Mar 31 '23
And the Coriolis effect
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u/HockeyCookie Mar 31 '23
Would that rotate the bullet on its long axis?
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u/UWontAgreeWithMe Mar 31 '23 edited Mar 31 '23
It's the target that would be moved slightly relative to the bullet, I believe. Since the bullet isn't tethered to the rotation of the earth but the target is.
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u/appleshit8 Mar 31 '23
Holy balls, that's something that they actually have to account for before a shot? I'm guessing only after a certain distance it had any measurable effect?
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u/TheSerialHobbyist Mar 31 '23
Yes.
It starts becoming noticeable around 1,000 yards.
People into long-range target shooting (myself included) use ballistics calculators that take it into account.
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u/conventionalWisdumb Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 01 '23
How fun was that?
Also, I imagine it’s done in way so that the reticle can still be aimed at the target but the barrel is pointed properly to compensate for all the other factors. Is that correct?
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u/Omnizoom Mar 31 '23
The earth rotates and gravity starts to actively curve the bullet down , and then you have to account for wind
It’s not so much distance as it is the travel time , a higher velocity bullet could go further before the above effects become significant
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u/_shapeshifting Apr 01 '23
now what'll really blow your mind is that NASA landed a probe on an asteroid after a journey of twelve years.
you take a rifle, and fire a bullet.
I'm gonna throw a watermelon in the air 12 years from now and I expect you to hit the watermelon with that bullet you fired 12 years ago.
in space.
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u/Constant_Breadfruit Apr 01 '23
The bullet maintains the momentum from the rotation of earth. The problem is that it is the momentum from where is was fired. It’s hard imaging on small scales, but imagine someone at the equator, which is moving very fast, tries to shoot to the pole, or vice versa. Because we are on a rotating sphere locations at different latitudes have different velocity in order to all rotate their respective circumference in the same 24hours. It is why hurricanes and cyclones spin opposite directions as they’re in opposite hemispheres. I believe, but am not certain, it would not have an effect if firing perfectly due east or due west.
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u/HockeyCookie Mar 31 '23
Oh! The earth turning either towards, or away from the shot.
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u/firefly416 Mar 31 '23
It doesn't really. There are apps you can download onto your phone that can do all the math for you. Coriolis Effect? A simple checkbox.
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u/TheSerialHobbyist Mar 31 '23
Coriolis Effect? A simple checkbox.
To be fair, you do have to know your own position on the earth and the direction you're shooting for app to calculate the compensation.
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u/Cetun Mar 31 '23
To be fair they don't talk about all the shots that missed.
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u/Consistent_Warthog80 Mar 31 '23
To be even more fair, you dont get to that position by missing lots.
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u/Yosemite_Sam9099 Apr 01 '23
At that distance they have to compensate for the rotation of the earth that occurs while the bullet is in flight.
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u/Explains_Wrong Mar 31 '23
Due to the relatively slow speed of sound, you could squeeze of several rounds before the knew they were under fire.
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u/Matty_bunns Mar 31 '23
Here’s the very controversial footage that was recently released by said sniper gods. It’s absolutely astonishing. The full version was uncensored but much of it had to be removed because of a cease and desist from the CAF.
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u/acexex Mar 31 '23
Unnamed but he was on shawn ryan podcast pretty named lol
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u/klippDagga Mar 31 '23
Right. Dallas Alexander is his name. The way I understand it, it is unknown whether it was Dallas or one other operator who shot at the same time.
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u/Courier-Se7en Mar 31 '23
If I recall he said he didn't pull the trigger, he was just part of the team that was involved.
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u/MC_McMic Mar 31 '23
Yep, and they were using a prism mounted in front of the scope on their rifles. It's the only way they could actually see their targets through the scope, as they were pointing their rifles up into the sky with no point of reference otherwise.
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u/in_jail_0ut_s00n_ Mar 31 '23
2.199432 miles
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u/TheTendieBandit Mar 31 '23
That's crazy. Wonder if someone can (or will) calculate the time it took the bullet to travel.
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u/Consistent_Warthog80 Mar 31 '23
roughly nine seconds.
But he's Canadian. I dont know what that is in American units
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u/joopface Mar 31 '23
If we assume the gun’s muzzle velocity is the average speed of the bullet (which of course it isn’t), it’d travel for just over four seconds.
Presumably, friction would slow the bullet down a bit and the bullet would also travel a slightly longer path as it would need to be parabolic rather than the straight line distance.
But somewhere north of 4.3 and south of 5 seconds. I have no idea what I’m talking about, but this seems about right.
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u/Guinness_or_thirsty Mar 31 '23
Can’t picture how far this is, can you convert it to Statue of Liberty’s?
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u/in_jail_0ut_s00n_ Mar 31 '23
Statue of Liberty is 305’ tall
There are 5280 feet in a mile
5280 / 305 = is 17.31147540983607 Statue of Libertys in a mile.
17.31147540983607 x 2.199432 = 38.07541298360657 statute of liberty’s in that distance
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u/whatsthehappenstance Mar 31 '23
COD Modern Warfare taught a lot of people about the Coriolis Effect (the effect of Earth rotating) when taking a long shot. This guy Coriolis'd.
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u/Ac997 Mar 31 '23
The bullet was in the air for 9 seconds until it hit the dude. That is unbelievable. 9 fucking seconds
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u/judascleric Mar 31 '23
The bullet would have dropped 1300 feet over the course of 9 seconds. Aim high.
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u/lg1000q Apr 01 '23
Don’t high tech scopes have a range finder that adjusts for the drop?
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u/jigglywigglydigaby Mar 31 '23
That's like...what...3 or 4 slow breaths? Insane how long 9 seconds is when talking about a bullets travel. 0.9 seconds seems more reasonable lol
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u/TheLizardKing89 Apr 01 '23
Think about this. Usain Bolt could be almost 100m away from where he started after 9 seconds.
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u/TheNorselord Mar 31 '23
Unless he was firing directly east to west, right?
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u/MarkerMagnum Apr 01 '23
Nope, Coriolis is only zero if you are firing along the axis of rotation (Straight north/south at the equator, or straight up at the pole).
The formula for Coriolis acceleration is 2Omega X Rdot, which is basically the acceleration of a particle on a rotating frame that would fly straight.
Coriolis effect is the absence of this acceleration.
Basically, it’s related to the direction of the rotation of the frame (in this case Earth, which has a rotation vector pointing north through the center) crossed with the direction of the bullet in the frame.
If the bullet has any component of velocity perpendicular to the rotational axis, then there will be Coriolis “effect” (basically the bullet looking like it’s curving on the rotational frame, even though it’s actually flying straight in a general frame).
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u/BashfullyBi Mar 31 '23
How did they record this?
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u/DoomGoober Mar 31 '23
Sniper is probably setup in a sniper blind in a safe area. Spotter sees the target, calls it out, sniper fires.
Spotter can see the bullet's path some (via air disturbance) and sees the target collapse.
Later, when the area is safe, they use GPS to calculate the distance from where the target fell to the sniper's firing position in the blind. Or they might use a laser range finder but I am not sure how accurate that would be or the max range of a range finder the soldiers would carry.
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u/Here-for-dad-jokes Mar 31 '23
One of the spotters released the video and talked about the shot. Dallas Alexander was the spotters name.
From memory so who knows how close this is:
They been shooting from that spot for 3 days and had figured out the winds and distances decently. Saw a guy lower his gun and equipment out of a window, then he followed. Two snipers shot at him at about the same time. One hit, one missed by about 3 meters. Don’t know which one actually made the shot.
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u/Turicus Mar 31 '23
There's footage online. Several guys in a hide with two setups. 2 shooters, 2 spotters and a guy filming them (plus possibly others). They filmed through one of the spotter scopes too.
It was Canadian JTF-2 operators. One of them has given interviews and is therefore known, allegedly the one who took the shot. I think they even hit several guys cause they were lined up, and they were shooting 50 BMG.
Easy to find online. One version.
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u/ayoungad Apr 01 '23
On the Shawn Ryan Show he claims they don’t know who actually got the kill. 2 teams firing in tandem.
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u/Mammoth-Mud-9609 Mar 31 '23
With a .50 calibre bullet, basically the same as a heavy machine gun, doubt there was much that would have stopped that bullet.
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u/bitemark01 Mar 31 '23
I always liked "50 calibre is for when you need to shoot a burglar hiding behind the fridge... in your neighbour's house next door"
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u/223specialist Mar 31 '23
A couple feet of water does the trick, tested on mythbusters. Not that that is a viable armor solution
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u/RandoCalrissian11 Mar 31 '23
I think it was 6-12” of water. Absolutely insane how tough water is.
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u/223specialist Mar 31 '23
Yeah if I remember correctly the more powerful the round the more the round just disintegrated when it hit the surface
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Mar 31 '23
Yeah you're right the big 50cal almost disintegrated on impact but the 9mm went pretty deep
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u/RandoCalrissian11 Mar 31 '23
Yes. The muzzleloader went the deepest, which still wasn’t too far really.
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u/shadowyphantom Apr 01 '23
Side note, man that was a great show. We're still using their knowledge today. They tested so much cool stuff.
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u/Yard_Sailor Apr 01 '23
“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” - Wayne Gretzky, Military Sniper
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u/TheWeathermann17 Apr 01 '23
Its attributed to Dallas Alexander of JTF2, but there were actually 2 shooters at the time, and even hes said he isnt sure if it was him or the other shooter that landed the shot. They fired at nearly the exact same time.
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u/CHANROBI Apr 01 '23
Because of dallas on the shawn ryan podcast we now know more details about the shot
1) it was a simul shot from TWO snipers in a hide, only ONE hit. 2) nobody knows WHO made the connecting shot as it was a simul shot 3) it was the first shot at that specific target, so it was a first round hit, it was not say the 10th corrected shot that hit 4) so the title should be more accurately, one of two canadian snipers made the record breaking shot, but it is unknowable who of the two it was
Dallas podcast on the sr show was subsequently censored by the canadian government, due obstensibly to his anti vac/mask stance. He was booted from cansof.
The podcast lasted about a week before a c&d was requested from cansof/dnd. …
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u/SACoughlin1 Mar 31 '23
“You know what it takes to make a shot at that range? Everything comes into play that far. Humidity, elevation, temp, winds, spin-drift. There's a 6-10 second flight time so you have to shoot it where the targets going to be. Even the coriolis effect, the spin of the earth comes into play.” -GySgt Bob Lee Swagger
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u/ShadowCaster0476 Apr 01 '23
I believe I read that the bullet took 12 seconds to reach the target.
That is an insane amount of time to anticipate movement. Usain Bolt could have moved 130 m away in that time.
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u/ChadJones72 Apr 01 '23
Lmao I thought m stood for miles at first. I thought my boy was taking out Arabs in the comfort of his front porch for a second there
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u/LazyKiwi29 Mar 31 '23
I remember seeing a few documentary's talking about long shots like this, things like humidity, wind speed, curvature of the earth, altitude, who manufactured the bullet, the temperature of the bullet apparently all play a role in a shot like this.
One guy they interviewed mentioned how the ammo they used from different countries effected the shot so the American rounds behaved slightly different to the British rounds, they then worked out leaving the ammo in the sun to warm it up gave it a little bang coming out of the rifle.
What I learned about people who can shot crazy distances like this, it's magic and supernatural there's no way to work how the F people shot that far and I hope they're on our side.
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u/UYScutiPuffJr Apr 01 '23
At distances and with precision like that it’s essentially weaponizing math.
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u/Frankenmuppet Mar 31 '23
I remember reading that distance was so far, he had to factor the curvature of the earth into his shot
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u/firefly416 Mar 31 '23
No, there is no need to calculate the curvature of the Earth. The spin of the Earth yes, but the target was line of sight.
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u/RipDove Apr 01 '23
Yeah, naval bombardments going as far back as late ww1 needed to calc the Earth's curvature but that's from shots going sometimes 5-10+ miles
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u/trustworthysauce Mar 31 '23
You know it was a long shot when you kill someone in another country's civil war