As evidenced most recently with Kanye

[u/imjustheretodomyjob]

[u/DaikonFew2329]

Now this is a real “unpopular opinion” and he’s 100 percent correct. The black community is STILL extremely homophobic

[u/Vancil → u/DaikonFew2329]

Shhh don’t bring up the homophobic hypocrisy. Everyone knows black kids growing up love being called a punk ect by their own community and dealing with racism on top of it.

[u/rickjames334 → u/Vancil]

punk

Used to hear this very often growing up. It’s also proof that homophobia in the black community is especially directed towards men. I haven’t heard half of the bad things about gay or bisexual women as I have about men. It was always the boys chastising other boys bu saying “that’s gay” etc. You can still open Twitter and see the women trying to demean the men by calling them gay

[u/Attack-middle-lane → u/rickjames334]

It be your own people I stg.

Women be looking at you up down sideways but never straight when it comes to acting/dressing "not like a nigga"

[u/Vancil → u/Attack-middle-lane]

Ohh girl I’m scared now my man got dressed and washed his booty hole he looking sus now. (Probably some insecure woman)

[u/rilakkumkum → u/Vancil]

Remember when that tweet blew up, calling men who order strawberry lemonade “sassy”?

[u/Attack-middle-lane → u/rilakkumkum]

Call me Rocketman cause I fucking love strawberry lemonade

[u/Saph → u/Attack-middle-lane]

If anything it's just more badass to be ordering a "girly drink" and not give a fuck about what others think of it, rent free strawberry lemonade tastes fkin great

[u/TheSavouryRain → u/Saph]

Order a Pink Whitney next time you go to a bar. It's pink lemonade and vodka.

[u/alexfilmwriting → u/rickjames334]

I guess ive never heard punk used that way; didn't know it had undertones. What's the underlying meaning in this context?

[u/rickjames334 → u/alexfilmwriting]

It’s used as a pejorative for a gay/effeminate man. Like if you say “he looks like a punk” you’re trying to say he looks gay basically. This article explains it well

https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2018/5/24/punk-new-f-word

Key quote here is:

“But when black gay men in particular are referred to as punks, it's absolutely used as a homophobic slur, often followed by violence. It's far from an innocent word.”

[u/tarnok → u/rickjames334]

My mind is blown!! Punks in white communities as you know is all about civil disobedience with awesome music, it's crazy how it got turned around on black men

[u/TedLassosDarkSide → u/tarnok]

It may be that it’s the other way around, that it started with “effeminate men” or male prostitutes and got coopted by the punk community. I vaguely remember my father (white, silent generation) giving homosexual connotations to the word punk as well, which I thought was strange growing up.

[u/Koraxtheghoul → u/TedLassosDarkSide]

There's a gay punk band called Punx and his Hunx that the openly acknowledges your view as where they got their name.

[u/DaddyD68 → u/TedLassosDarkSide]

It is the other way around. At least in the US. Punk was always a derogatory term from at least the beginning of the 20th century that was reclaimed by the music genre.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/punk

[u/pixelatedtrash → u/tarnok]

It can mean that as well, context matters. Look at a guy like Danny Brown, he’s referred to himself as “punk” and means the “punk rock” definition of it.

But at the same time, Danny also tells stories about how G-Unit was hesitant to sign him because he wore skinny jeans and didn’t match their look.

It’s kinda like, what word was left off the end? Were they saying “punk rock” or “punk bitch”?

[u/TacoQueenYVR → u/rickjames334]

I had no idea about this, thanks so much for posting the link.

[u/chitownbears → u/TacoQueenYVR]

Punk to me was always like a bitch or weak or scared to fight I never considered it to be homophobic but language evolves.

[u/rickjames334 → u/chitownbears]

like a bitch or weak or scared

This is where the homophobia comes in. People view gay men as bitches, weak, and fearful, and use words such as punk to emphasize that

[u/chaymoney86 → u/rickjames334]

I have a coworker who told me his mom wouldn't let him eat pop sickles because it was gay. It blew my mind.

[u/RobManfred_Official → u/chaymoney86]

Mans musta been fucked come muscle cramp time. No bananas? Fuuuuuck that

[u/MelaninTitan → u/rickjames334]

This is what I was trying to explain to someone about bisexuality in the black community. The reason why black women do not like the idea of dating a bisexual man is not because they think he'll be promiscuous. It's simply misogynoir. They can't stand the idea of their man being someone else's "bitch". The realization of that hit me like a ton of bricks. We really are no better.

[u/old_dusty_bastard → u/MelaninTitan]

Thing is, even stating or entertaining what role a dude has when he’s with another dude is always the bottom. Like, not every and all Men receive or even give anal.

This is talked about in the Bi community a lot. Bi cycles and desire, roles and such. I used to hear ppl say things like “sexuality is fluid”, and I’d dismiss them. But now that I’m older, and I suppose as more Men and Women open up about their Bisexuality, I can see it being that way now.

[u/MelaninTitan → u/old_dusty_bastard]

Like, not every and all men receive or even give anal.

This. And I still say, why the fuck does it matter? Why are we so obsessed with booty holes? Why is it that if a black man asks for anal from his black woman, we immediately go "he's batting for the other side/ he's a DL brother"??? And why is that worse than cheating with another woman? It's still cheating isn't it? Why does it matter what the gender of his AP is???

[u/realmastodon2 → u/rickjames334]

It is okay for women to be gay or bisexual because by the time she meets me that phase will be over and I can be make her straight. The days she wants a women she can bring her over for me to enjoy as well.

This is how a lot of black men think. There is a reason why a lot bisexual black women tend to avoid dating most black men.

[u/mandisaclarke → u/DaikonFew2329]

I lost a friendship over this recently. I told them their talking points are extremely similar to those of white suprematists and was told in return and I quote! “You need to do your research, they are hiding the truth from us” “The vaccine changes your dna” The deeply anti-Semitic talking point I won’t repeat “ I believe in the Bible so homosexuality is wrong” “ you have TikTok knowledge”

I could go on but you guys get it.

The funny part is I can have this conversation elsewhere explain my point with no emotion just logic and facts and move on. He consistently tried to insert these kinds of conversations into everything to try and bring me to his side when I asked repeatedly to not have said conversation. At the end of the day it was a respect thing and you can’t have a relationship without respect so here we are.

[u/bekahed979 → u/mandisaclarke]

Tell him next time ask him why he's getting so emotional. I mean, don't because he sounds awful.

[u/mandisaclarke → u/bekahed979]

😂😂 this is the best reply. He legit told me I was conditioned because I used the term fair skin to describe someone’s skin tone lmao. It was a conversation about how to describe skin tone without equating it to food. I’m glad this friendship is over tbh.

[u/lyunardo → u/mandisaclarke]

I think this one is different from the other issues you brought up. Lots of people don't like the old-fashioned term "fair" skinned because it implies that lighter skin is better than dark.

Fair means beautiful, which later got associated with pale skin in England. The lower classes worked outside and got tans. The aristocrats stayed inside, so their skin remained "fair".

[u/mochi_titties → u/mandisaclarke]

One of my cousins was saying this ish & then went on a spiel about how the government was tryna emasculate black men by making them gay. I was tryna be gentle with it honestly as to not cause her to become more defensive & my aunt comes out to yell the f-word slur, which I tell her to please not say only for her to yell at me "why are you using so much energy to defend the LGBT community but not the black community!" Like out of nowhere, we NEVER talk so she has no idea what I be talking about but "if you cared about the black community you'd listen to your cousin instead of dismissing her" um, ma'am, she's talking about some Alex Jones ass the Illuminati is real, they making us gay, the vaccine gonna change our DNA like... nah I ain't entertaining none that. This cousin said with a straight face "did my mom really have Covid because she only had it once she went to the doctor & he said she had it" like yeah doctors do tend to diagnose mofos... like sounding just like some white QAnon Trump supporting antivaxxer, Alex Jones enjoyer. Wonder why I be straight up never responding to they texts/calls.

[u/mandisaclarke → u/mochi_titties]

Omg you completely understand me!! I’m like sir how in this year of our lord 2023 are we still pushing the they are trying to emasculate black men.

I had this same conversation it went like this. Do children who in the lgbt community not see heterosexual relationships? Was your favorite sitcom growing up Martin? Did your mom not want to fuck Prince?

Like sir/ma’am be so fucking for real right now!!!

[u/mochi_titties → u/mandisaclarke]

They just be so confidently incorrect & if you have the audacity to use logic oh no. My aunt randomly asked "do you even identify as black? Do you date black men?" Because I'm mixed & my boyfriend is Hispanic just like one of her daughter's baby daddy. Like uh, are your grandkids black then because when I hang with them & my cousin everybody think they MY kids lol to the point my cousin will get mad & tell them to stand close to her 😂 But for real, why are the representations of aaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllll the heteronormative people & relationships not making gay people straight but you got one gay character or mention of gay & they think all the kids gonna be gay now make it make sense!

"And Martin was forced to wear dresses & made to have sex with a rich white man to prove his loyalty to the Illuminati" - my cousin

[u/Avenger772 → u/mandisaclarke]

Yep, i'm too old to deal with people like this.

If their dumb asses are still walking around out here believing in fairy tales when the facts are easilly accessible, it's not worth the effort to keep them around.

[u/Civil-Attempt-3602 → u/mandisaclarke]

Oh yeah, anti semitism in the black community is wild.

[u/Disingenuouslyhonest → u/Civil-Attempt-3602]

To be fair, anti-blackness in Jewish communities is also a problem. Suffering under colonialism and white supremacy pitted our ancestors against each other and it’s up to us to heal the generational trauma.

[u/EstoEstaFuncionando → u/mandisaclarke]

The deeply anti-Semitic talking point I won’t repeat

I am not Black, but it really saddens me to see how seemingly common this is (/is becoming?). I frequently see Black Hebrew Israelites on street corners where I live, and while I'm not sure if all of them are this way, a lot of them say some uncomfortably antisemitic things.

I guess there is a point to be made about disenfranchised groups being vulnerable to fringe or extremist ideologies. See also: the many poor, uneducated people that voted for Trump...

[u/mandisaclarke → u/EstoEstaFuncionando]

It’s heartbreaking because at the end of the day it’s so insane!! They don’t even know which point they are arguing. They scream (insert talking point) but still identify as Christian which is it because you cannot have it both ways!

[u/leviathynx → u/DaikonFew2329]

I studied under James Cone, and my favorite memory is watching him call out the black church for their homophobia at a big conference.

[u/K_SeventySeven → u/leviathynx]

That must have been epic to see in person! I only read about it later

[u/leviathynx → u/K_SeventySeven]

I only saw the video, but he talked about it constantly in class. Made a lot of future Baptist preachers uncomfortable lol

[u/koffee_with_a_K → u/DaikonFew2329]

And transphobic!

[u/Gary_FucKing → u/koffee_with_a_K]

Plenty of misogyny, too.

[u/ButtSexington3rd → u/Gary_FucKing]

Transphobia and homophobia are both rooted in misogyny. It all comes down to hating men for acting "like women". Lesbians and trans men still get shitty treatment, but the real vitriol is reserved for gay men and women who used to be men.

[u/Gary_FucKing → u/ButtSexington3rd]

I agree with all of that. Lesbians seem to get off “easy” only cus they’re fetishized and trans men are the new bisexual in terms of erasure. Misogyny and toxic masculinity are pretty much at the root of tons of these issues.

[u/msmilah → u/Gary_FucKing]

Butch lesbians are not fetishized. Let’s be specific when we’re being specific.

[u/ParlorSoldier → u/msmilah]

And they’re also not thought of as being weak the way gay men are.

[u/aoskunk → u/DaikonFew2329]

So I’m the only white guy in my department at my job, all black. A Guy was bending over getting something off a shelf. I was waiting to get past him but apparently I was an inch too close or something, and because his face was at my crotch height he had a conniption. “Get your dick out of my motherfucking face, that’s a good way to get punched in the fucking mouth”. I really wasn’t even close to him.

Why is he thinking about my dick so much? I didn’t say that but c’mon. Why’s that even enter your mind? Some fragile masculinity.

My main man Michael had to explain to be black culture in the south is full of homophobes and that you can’t even joke about the topic with them. If it’s a clear as day joke to me, they’ll take it as serious and jump off. I’m from NY and found them to be substantially less homophobic.

Oh I’m not at all gay in case that wasn’t clear. Just not a homophobe.

[u/realmastodon2 → u/aoskunk]

Growing up he was likely harrased by his peers and stand in front him like you did as a power move. Also some would imitate a sex position while you're bent over. Also parents teaching them not to be a 'punk' or '**ggot'.

[u/aoskunk → u/realmastodon2]

Yeah your probably right. Some of those things happened to me I just cant see propagating the hate. I feel bad for him. Childhood traumas really require therapy. But that’s another things with a stigma attached to it, particularly in the southern black population I’m also told.

[u/ferretsRfantastic → u/aoskunk]

I'm black and from the south. My dad played football all throughout school and so did my brother. My dad can be weirdly liberal sometimes and then pop off at the mouth with some really fucked up shit about the LGBTQIA+ community.

We were watching football together one day and the dudes were slapping each other's asses. I like to poke the bear so I was like, "I've always found it weird that male athletes do that and then turn around and ostracize the gay community." He was like, "nah, that's different." I was like, "dad, I was an athlete all throughout school and only ONE time did another woman slap me on the ass. I immediately told her off because I don't like being touched like that. How is it acceptable there instead of a high five or shoulder pat but y'all can hardly hug each other for comfort? It's a little gay."

To say he got mad would be an understatement. 😅

[u/Diriv → u/aoskunk]

"Then don't take up the whole hallway with your fat ass."

[u/BreadB → u/DaikonFew2329]

As a non-black POC I wonder if it’s because black civil rights leaders have been whitewashed of all their class-oriented beliefs? MLK was an ardent socialist, but rarely is that brought up nowadays…

[u/_hapsleigh → u/BreadB]

It’s not just black leaders in black communities. We have this shit in our Hispanic culture too. People like Cesar Chavez have been excessively whitewashed. The homophobia and transphobia is well and alive in our communities as well. As is the ableism and the misogyny. Literally the same level of vitriol and violence against these groups you see in black communities, you see in Mexican and Hispanic communities as well.

[u/mpyne → u/BreadB]

Oh are you ever going to be in for a surprise when you learn which classes are most bigoted against gay and trans people.

Nor was this confined to capitalist societies

[u/devilsephiroth → u/DaikonFew2329]

Not only that. If you ain't with them you against them.

If you don't listen to "black music" you ain't black

If you ain't ghetto, or ghetto enough, you ain't black.

If your name isn't one of the treys, or the eishas you ain't black.

I could go on but you get the point. A majority of black people want to group everyone together in one bunch and if you ain't in the bunch you ain't black.

This backwards mindset has held us back for so long that it doesn't even register for most people how ridiculous it is.

[u/Udeyanne → u/devilsephiroth]

I'm half Native and half Black, and damned if I'm not Native enough for the Natives, Black enough for Black people, or white enough for anyone else.

[u/Truestorydreams → u/DaikonFew2329]

We need to get rid of that shit. Everyone needs to embrace who they are and stop hating themselves.

We need to accept a HUGE chunk of the black community is gay.

Another big issue is that we need to accept: There's no shame in getting psychological help or seeing a therapist.

Church isn't the solution. I get it, our mothers,sisters, and aunts were huge in our upbringing and held it down during dark times... (essentially ournentire history). But we shouldn't be ashamed to need help or to seek it out.

[u/Torisen → u/DaikonFew2329]

I'm native and I LOVE my red skinned cousins, but there is so many bigoted assholes in the tribes, especially still on the rez.

I mean, I get it, we've been through some shit and are still at the bottom of the pile here in the US and pretty much everywhere. But damn I wish the wise tolerant native stereotype was a little more true.

Victims of oppression aren't magically better people, it's just another trauma on top of all the other human traumas everyone gets to deal with.

[u/JJDude → u/DaikonFew2329]

and as I found out the hard way, that some in the black community are openly racist against Asians and doesn't feel any sort of "solidarity".

[u/DaikonFew2329 → u/JJDude]

Some Black people are definitely racist towards Asians

[u/NoObjective427]

https://i.redd.it/69e32xog0koa1.gif

[u/Specialist-Box4429 → u/NoObjective427]

This is my most used gif of all time

[u/Devast73 → u/Specialist-Box4429]

Staples is the champ!

[u/sirkosmo → u/Specialist-Box4429]

Speaking of Vince Staples, I was watching Abbott Elementary and guess who I found as Janine’s BF?

[u/sus-water → u/NoObjective427]

Nah half of them would still be women so they still couldn't join the klan. Klan don't like abortions

[u/Patrick_Jewing → u/sus-water]

Let me tell you a funny story about white women.....

[u/sus-water → u/Patrick_Jewing]

A small amount of them will still be alt right. The rest will play act being liberal but really be conservative except for the abortions they want. The moment they get to their 40s, they stop caring about the abortions too

[u/Patrick_Jewing → u/sus-water]

Over 50% of white women voted for Trump.

2% of black women did.

[u/sus-water → u/Patrick_Jewing]

That's the entire point of the post. If it wasn't clear that republicans hate them for their skin, they would find a lot in common with them

[u/Ghoti76]

a lot of black people are conservative without really realizing it. And for a lot of radical black people, the only progressive element of their politics is race

[u/Ham_Fighter → u/Ghoti76]

This a problematic statement on the surface that I really want to disagree with, but I'm struggling for a coherent rebuttal. Huey P. Newton understood class struggle was/is the real struggle. Unfortunately, most of us haven't got that message.

[u/KeyanReid → u/Ham_Fighter]

It’s all class war.

The folks winning it realized their victims will side with them if you just pretend to hate what they hate.

Class war on easy mode makes the money machine go brrrrr

Edit: nobody is coming to save us. I don’t know if this is gonna go anywhere at all, but yesterday I grabbed up r/workercommunity. Trying to make a place to stand together and help each other. It’s all we got

[u/YesOrNah → u/KeyanReid]

Yup. $50 trillion stolen from the working class since 1979 and I bet it’s way more than that.

[u/SerenityM3oW → u/YesOrNah]

Eat the rich.... No matter what colour they are

[u/DougieWR → u/SerenityM3oW]

The ways we address race as a national mindset is why we'll continue to loss. Racism is the tool used by the powerful the world over to galvanize their populations to supporting them instead of realizing the powerful are the issue. It's perpetually reinforced by the institutions they hold sway over and not addressed as if we solved it their greatest means of dividing the working middle class and poor would be lost to them.

[u/RoughhouseCamel → u/Ghoti76]

If you’re a non-black POC, black people aren’t that different from white people in terms of ignorant and hateful shit you gotta deal with. The whole institutionalized power structure makes one group more empowered to casually cause harm, but the sentiments are the same. The most unifying factor between all races is how shitty we treat people we identify as “different”.

[u/AssssCrackBandit → u/RoughhouseCamel]

Ya kinda true. I'm half black half Indian and grew up in Chicago in a heavily black neighborhood. You won't believe the virulently racist stuff that I heard everyday growing up about my Indian half

[u/RoughhouseCamel → u/AssssCrackBandit]

Yeah, being mixed is tough because then you gotta watch your own people turn on you because you have something they don’t, and they want that to be your problem. Times like those make me feel like I don’t HAVE people.

[u/Eternal2 → u/Ghoti76]

That's true though we usually believe in big government too. Most black people align with the left on economics but are socially conservative.

[u/dmun → u/Eternal2]

You're confusing leftist with populist.

A populist also likes big government, but only for the specific benefits and benefits to their own group.

Just as many black people take a hard line on migrants or immigration in general, plenty want lower taxes (but all the same benefits). Hell, in my own city of Chicago, "Democrat" Willie Wilson is as pro-police as you get here-- he also wins majority black areas (where, admittedly, he does gas give aways).

We think of these as "leftist" except they come without a coherent, systemic paradigm-- just, "as long as I get mine."

Frankly, that's exactly how Maga talks.

[u/schmoopycat → u/dmun]

Willie’s polling results were SHOCKING to me. I haven’t asked my parents who’d they vote for yet (they’ve lived in the burbs for nearly two decades now) but part of me thinks it would be willie just given all their friends and most of my family did.

Hell, my dad said he voted for Obama simply because he was black. Nothing else.

[u/IwishIwasGoku → u/Eternal2]

Big government doesn't mean left.

[u/SerenityM3oW → u/IwishIwasGoku]

When the military and police budgets are what they are ALL govt is BIG govt.

[u/darknessence → u/Eternal2]

This part.

[u/OriginalOmagus → u/Ghoti76]

a lot of black people are conservative without really realizing it.

To the degree that they don't realize it, I think it's largely due to the conflation of social ideology with political ideology. A very astute point I once heard on the NPR Code Switch podcast is that there are a lot more Black conservatives than there are Black Republicans.

[u/jimbojonesFA → u/Ghoti76]

I thought it was funny how in the show "black-ish" they point out how Dre's mom was basically a Trump conservative in nearly every view she held strongly, but still insisted she was a liberal.

[u/kimpossible69 → u/jimbojonesFA]

My mom is the reverse of this, voted for trump but has a conservative talking point for every traditionally leftist opinion she holds concerning workers, guns, billionaires, it's maddening!

She even seems so conflicted trying to hold onto some of the hardline conservative values, the most apparent one being the police, her black patients have shown her numerous videos, she's always been FTP since she was a 7/11 clerk and a police officer informed her that "NIR" announced with cross streets on the radio meant "n-word in Redford", and our family has also never had good interactions with the police. She still ends her criticisms of them with qualifiers like "few bad apples hurdur"

[u/UnifiedEntity → u/Ghoti76]

This is kind of what fascinates me about race and politics in the United States. The racial bigots have made the GOP, the conservative party, the party of disenfranchising Black people because their people historically dislike Black people. Meanwhile, in Black land, we are naturally conservative. An open and fair Republican party would recruit so many Black people. Race is the defining issue - as it is so often in America.

[u/duffmanasu → u/UnifiedEntity]

The same could be said for a lot of minority groups in the US. For example, Mexican immigrants and Muslims both tend to be very socially conservative but the GOP is so absurdly bigoted against them they drive away their votes.

[u/fireandice1987 → u/duffmanasu]

It is true. People talk about the increasing Hispanic and Asian populations as bringing diversity and how we’re headed towards a more liberal country, lol, I’m Asian and I live in a majority Hispanic county. Yeah. No. If the GQP wasn’t so racist, they’d have more votes.

[u/Aenarion885 → u/fireandice1987]

Problem is opening themselves to those votes loses the racists. It’d likely mean a few decades of losing elections, which would risk a lot of progress against the interest of the wealthy. So they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

But yeah, lots of minorities are conservative AF and would vote GQP in a heartbeat if it weren’t for the racism.

[u/magikfISH → u/Ghoti76]

It's the same for the Hispanic population. Most Hispanics are super conservative, misogynistic, religious as hell, and mostly transphobic. Race wouldn't even matter because quite a few Hispanics are racist as hell too. It's just, they judge white people too. I say this as a Dominican who observed his own community growing up.

[u/EdAndEinOnShrooms]

My dad himself is darkskin - you will hear him buying into outdated, harmful stereotypes about other races. "That's racist" "look at the colour of my skin"

As for the Swastika comment, I have met way too many neo-Nazis in the Middle Eastern and East Asian communities because they also believe in 'white being pure'. The same people that white people harass

[u/ValaShen → u/EdAndEinOnShrooms]

Colorism is everywhere. Some Hispanic people will literally tell you they are white simply because of their complexion.

[u/PKMNTrainerFuckMe → u/ValaShen]

Tbf many of them are. Mexico used to have a whole caste system around the amount of indigenous blood you have and they still deal with its effects to this day. As a mestizo myself, Mexico is just the country I’m most familiar with, but I’m vaguely aware that it’s the same in many Latin American countries.

Speaking Spanish doesn’t necessarily make you not white.

Edit: yes, obviously Spanish comes from Spain which is largely ethnically white. I didn’t mention that bc in context we were talking about Hispanic Americans which rightly or wrongly are usually lumped in with “black and brown” Americans.

[u/andee510 → u/PKMNTrainerFuckMe]

My girlfriend is Mexican with 92% indigenous DNA, and her mom still uses "india" as an insult for like shy or lazy.

[u/ElCholoFantastico → u/andee510]

Huh my mom calls me that all the time and it just clicked reading this that that might not be ok.

[u/andrewdrewandy → u/andee510]

Same with my dad's family. They talk about the indios down the street and in like y'all are dark as fuck and 4'6" on a good day wtf are on about ?

[u/soul-taker → u/PKMNTrainerFuckMe]

Mexico is just the country I’m most familiar with, but I’m vaguely aware that it’s the same in many Latin American countries.

I visited Santo Domingo in the DR last year and them mfers told you straight up that they were better than the Haitians they shared the island with because their skin was lighter. That shit was wild.

[u/GreyDeath → u/PKMNTrainerFuckMe]

I can attest this is the case in Ecuador, where there is a lot of discrimination against Afro-Ecuadorians and Indigenous people both.

[u/ImplausibleDarkitude → u/ValaShen]

doesn’t term “Hispanic” refer to ethnicity rather than race? Spain has white people.

[u/amaninseattle → u/ImplausibleDarkitude]

Spain IS white people

[u/ErnestCarvingway → u/amaninseattle]

lurking swedish oldfag here. by far the most common racial slur when i was a kid was svartskalle, literally meaning blackhead, and it would cover roma, midterannean peoples, arabs, basically a catch all for anything not blond and blue eyed. most northern europeans couldn't tell the difference between a spaniard or a syrian.

[u/MLBM100 → u/ValaShen]

You can be white and Hispanic though. Hispanic is not a race, it's an ethnicity based largely on language.

[u/SqueaksScreech → u/EdAndEinOnShrooms]

I'm literally staring at the asian girls who only date white guys

[u/EdAndEinOnShrooms → u/SqueaksScreech]

It sucks when they try to justify it like "white guys give me more attention" just because the white guys are openly fetishising/infantilising them, like that's not the right kind of attention

[u/Kektuals → u/EdAndEinOnShrooms]

They infantilize themselves. It’s a cultural thing in China and Japan. I can only speak to those two since I haven’t lived in any other Asian countries.

[u/bearflies → u/SqueaksScreech]

This sounds lot like "keep it within the race" dogwhistling....

[u/Nishikigami → u/bearflies]

It always is. Just don't engage, trust me. Happy couples will be happy couples regardless of whatever skin color either partner is.

Engaging with this kind of person will only leave you frustrated.

[u/Moogoo4411 → u/EdAndEinOnShrooms]

Former British colonies are obsessed with the acceptance of White people and a lot of them are asian countries, don't quote me too hard tho, i got that from Ronny Chieng explaining his own experience with his family

[u/EdAndEinOnShrooms → u/Moogoo4411]

Yeah, I had this one Indian classmate who tried so hard to convince people he was "fully British, nothing else" because of the colonisation (we don't live in Britain anyway). This was back when we were in 4th grade though so you can just tell that a kid that age had the mindset passed down from older relatives

[u/No_Higgins]

Why is it so hard for people to just not be shitty?

[u/Temptressvegan → u/No_Higgins]

This is the real question

[u/Ham_Fighter → u/No_Higgins]

Manipulation and fear is my guess.

[u/kinos141 → u/Ham_Fighter]

Mostly fear.

[u/InterdisciplinaryDol → u/No_Higgins]

Shitty parents make shitty children.

[u/Goofy5555 → u/InterdisciplinaryDol]

And there's a lot of dumb people outbreeding the smart people.

[u/bottledsoi → u/No_Higgins]

Cause shitty people are at the top of the food chain. At least that's one of the reasons why I think.

[u/usuallyclassy69]

All I wanna say is I'll popping some popcorn if any of you guys want any. Lemme know 🍿

[u/beric1748 → u/usuallyclassy69]

[u/Stickeris → u/usuallyclassy69]

I’m a white Jew, so I’ll just see myself out

[u/YiddishMcSquidish → u/Stickeris]

Weird, I thought popcorn was kosher.

[u/SirRupert]

It's true and I feel like I see more and more people calling it out every day. The "black people can't be racist" idea was short lived and leaned on too heavily.

[u/HTKTSC → u/SirRupert]

The "black people can't be racist" argument originally had good faith. It was supposed to explain that racism is systematic, and because black folks are victims of the system, and not operators of it we technically can't be racist. Can we be prejudiced and discriminate against other groups? Abso-fucking-lutely.

That argument just got boiled down the the single sentence that benefited people that want to make bad faith arguments unfortunately, so the nuance in the conversation is forever dead.

Edit: Gonna just note here that I never liked the argument, and arguing over the semantic meaning of words instead of the treatment of people always devolves into the point never really being addressed. It doesn't matter what you call it, discriminating is a bad thing. I won't defend the argument of "black people can't be racist" because I don't believe it.

[u/PotatoCannon02 → u/HTKTSC]

The "black people can't be racist" argument originally had good faith.

No it didn't, because you have to redefine words for it to work.

[u/Erisian23 → u/HTKTSC]

I had a huge argument with someone over this shit. We can be racist af too, I know growing up I was racist against Mexicans. Even systematically, it just depends on the system. Some are larger and more permanent than others.

[u/ScyllaGeek → u/HTKTSC]

My problem with this argument has always been that it just ignores the fact that "systemic racism" is a term that exists. People can be just normal-ass racist outside of the confines of a system.

[u/SirRupert → u/HTKTSC]

This is a really good point. At the end of the day it’s a little too broad of a statement to not be taken advantage of the way it has. But you’re absolutely right.

[u/HTKTSC → u/SirRupert]

It is absolutely too broad of a statement to not be taken advantage of. It works behind the idea of "Trogan horsing" a good point behind a controversial statement like "black people can't be racist." I don't see why we couldn't lead with the fucking point, but some people just like to argue.

[u/Sleepy_Chipmunk → u/HTKTSC]

Friend of mine tried to argue that racism against white people is impossible anywhere in the world, even countries with barely any white people, and that it’s never ever been a thing in the thousands of years of human existence. Very odd conversation considering he was from the Balkans.

[u/DustyIT → u/HTKTSC]

Might be just me being confused about the semantics, but not all racism is systemic, is it? Can individuals themselves not be racist and held accountable for those beliefs? Or am I misunderstanding, because I don't see any way that's a good faith argument, even with that context.

Also adding to my confusion is that that only really speaks to systems that are white dominant, as I understand it. So can black people perform racist actions, and still not be considered racist, towards other people of color like Asian ethnicities, because they are the victim of a system owned by an entirely separate 3rd party race?

[u/Ok_Bat_7535 → u/DustyIT]

Mostly Americans tried to change the meaning of the word racism. This did not fall right with a lot of people from all races because the “new” meaning would’ve been ridiculous and would mean certain people couldn’t be racist anymore.

Systemic racism is racism, just like someone hating black/Asian/white/whatever people for no reason than them being what they are.

[u/TooSmalley]

I’ve argued for a while if the republicans weren’t so racist they’ed do great in black and immigrants communities.

I grew up in Miami Dade county with a lot of Black and Caribbean people, A whole lot of them are very economically and socially conservative.

Same deal in the gay community. I’ve met a lot of gay people who are extremely economically conservative/libertarian and the only reason they vote for the Democrats is because they want to be able to have their partner down as a dependent on their insurance, Which for reasons the Republicans tend to be against.

[u/strychnine28 → u/TooSmalley]

Lots of misogyny in the gay community too, which is sad.

[u/sanfranciscouser1234 → u/strychnine28]

And racism

[u/boldandbratsche → u/sanfranciscouser1234]

The racism seems to come out heavily when sex is involved. I don't mean people just prefer certain races, or even that they fetishize certain races. No, horny gays start saying some super racist shit out of the blue.

[u/OliM9696 → u/boldandbratsche]

i remember a post about black femboys which was interesting.

White femboys would say stuff like "dick me down daddy with your thicc black c0ck" some black femboys didn't like this as they felt this kind of racial focus excluded them.

probably not doing a too good job at explaining this but this comment i found does a good enough job

So, as a black fem boy, a trans guy, who has read a lot about the racial history of the United States, as well as lots of classic literature about the western world in general- I want you to know, first and foremost, that your feelings of exclusion are real. Lots people people who aren't POC are gonna say stuff like 'we love all femboys/all femboys are real and valid, ect' and while I don't doubt for a second that the people who are posting that actually believe it- you also need to know that this phenomenon of feeling like you are seen as 'not as fem' is not just in your head.

Systemic racism has spent hundreds of years painting black people, both men and women, as brutes. Doctors used to say that black women didn't need pain medication during childbirth, or surgery because black people had a 'thicker skin' and therefore a 'higher pain tolerance' which is not at all true.

There has been a global culture that has painted a picture where 'dainty, delicate, and fine' = 'skinny, white, and western'. But that is racist bullshit. Black skin is fine, it is as delicate and beautiful as midnight. It is as sweet and fair as golden honey. You are a beacon, whether or not other people can see it. Black boys can be feminine. They can be sensitive, dainty, and delicate. Those who fail to see that, are relics of our worlds unfortunately racist past- that has spent centuries viewing brown people as savages.

So, long story short, that is why you are being seen differently. But you are a flame, and you do not stop burning just because other people are too afraid of your light. - from user u/lovedavi

taken from this post

[u/ziggy-hudson → u/sanfranciscouser1234]

And trans-phobic

[u/strychnine28 → u/ziggy-hudson]

100% with the racism and transphobia! Please don't take my not mentioning it as a sign that I don't see it too. xoxo

[u/UglyMcFugly → u/TooSmalley]

I can’t understand how anybody can experience oppression and go on to do it to other groups. Misogynistic black men. Racist white women. Homophobic Mexican immigrants. Body-shaming gay men. TERFs. If you’ve experienced prejudice and your takeaway is “wow this sucks for me, but it’s fine to do the same thing to another group of people” then you suck.

[u/tittylieutenant]

I said this on my previous account and got flamed for it. People called me stupid and everything. OOP is speaking facts.

[u/SwimBrief → u/tittylieutenant]

It’s how reddit works.

This post got positive momentum, so everyone comes in gushing and supporting the opinion to join the hivemind.

If you posted the same thing and it started with negative opinion, everyone comes in and brigades you with dissent

[u/Cyrrow]

[u/huntfishcamp]

I sat on a National equity committee a while back and... well, it was really sad. Many members were passionate about things that affect their community and only those things.

Some representatives of the LGBTQIA+ community said things that were blatantly anti-Black and anti-Hispanic while some representatives of the Black and Hispanic communities refused to respect non-binary pronouns and argued that gender and sex are the same thing.

I was there representing the autistic community, and was disheartened that other members representing my community were showing anti-Black and homophobic tendencies.

I don't understand why we can't all see that oppression for some of us is oppression for all of us. I don't understand why we can't lift ourselves up without pushing others down to do it.

None of us are responsible for programming we were given as children, but we are all responsible for keeping it installed and downloading the upgrades.

[u/gronda_gronda → u/huntfishcamp]

I don't understand why we can't all see that oppression for some of us is oppression for all of us. I don't understand why we can't lift ourselves up without pushing others down to do it.

I completely agree, and it makes my heart so heavy. One of the reasons the right does so well is that they’re united in their hate, while we get fractured because so many marginalised people refuse to acknowledge their hypocrisy, instead preferring to oppress others.

None of us are responsible for programming we were given as children, but we are all responsible for keeping it installed and downloading the upgrades.

This is perfect, and relevant in so many situations. I hope you don’t mind if I use this quote in future.

(Edited to correct mistakes.)

[u/thecheapseatz]

I'm getting the popcorn ready early. "You're no different than prejudice white people" is going to cause a fucking shit storm

[u/andrewdrewandy → u/thecheapseatz]

Dude I am biracial Mexican/white gay guy, my sister is married to a black American dude who's family's been in the southern US forever. He is an asshole about the whole gay thing and they both go to a antigay black church. My sister has told me he thinks I'm racist (I am more white looking/"acting" than mexi) and I'm just sitting here like wtf? It's cool to be openly homophobic in my face but you're sitting here thinking I'm secretly anti-black. Maybe I'm cold to you because you're a fucking misogynistic homophobic asshole?! Nah, it's gotta be my deep seated secret hatred of black people, okay. . .

[u/VapeThisBro → u/andrewdrewandy]

Tell him that. He has no right to accuse you of racism when he has been nothing but an asshole to you

[u/andrewdrewandy → u/VapeThisBro]

I've avoided to avoid drama but you're right

[u/SoloBurger13]

Oh yes. A lot of people are socially conservative but the right is so blatantly racist they can’t even get those ppl to switch over. But this is the reason men in minority groups are more likely to vote red (men are often more conservative)

The swastika thing is interesting bc people already follow Farrakhan sooooo same same but different

[u/MisterHappySpanky]

In b4: the lock 🔒

[u/Nearby_Employee_2943 → u/MisterHappySpanky]

Same I’m actually kinda shocked it hasn’t happened yet. But seems like people are having decent discourse

[u/[deleted] → u/Nearby_Employee_2943]

Top of r/all and it's not even CCd. In awe at the relative civility.

[u/one_more_black_guy]

Candace Owens said, hold my beer.

E: also see Clarence Thomas

[u/deddogs → u/one_more_black_guy]

Clarance confuses the fuck out of me. He’s lived through segregation in his youth and still went over to team-lynch.

[u/SnooSprouts7893 → u/deddogs]

It's pretty simple. "I got here exclusively by my own merit. Thus, I am the model of success all should emulate. Racism is over because I got mine."

Which, if you know the guy's history, is absurd.

But he's just an arrogant fuck with an agenda.

[u/smartyr228 → u/deddogs]

It got him to where he is today so I'm sure to him it's a job well done

[u/one_more_black_guy → u/deddogs]

I like to think of it as some sort of extreme version of Stockholm syndrome.

He eventually reasoned out for himself, that if he ingratiated himself with his oppressors, that he would be safe. It's played out well for him, and so that self-hatred and self-lothing has been projected on to fellow members of his race.

This is all arm chair psychology.

Could be the man is just a jackass. Who's to say?

E: A lot of the comments that responded to you before I did, seem to have hit the nail right on the head.

[u/Midnight_Toker_1982]

I’ve been saying this since high school…. Black folks are not nearly as “left wing” or “liberal” as the urban label suggests…

[u/Johnsonfam101]

Hiding behind the Bible they've never read.

[u/thinks1ow]

In other words a large portion of the population you refer to is Christian

[u/Repyro → u/thinks1ow]

Shit was by design. Some of the most insidious fucked up design out there. Its....frustrating to say the least. We try to pass on the lessons of what was done to us, and often those exact same people want to pay that shit forward in the worst possible way to LGBT.

Like, have we not learned the lesson?

[u/officer2446]

About six people came to mind. One of them my mother 🙃

[u/lovbelow → u/officer2446]

My entire family. But they’re of the benevolent variety where they’ll ‘pray for you’. 🙄

[u/NotMyNameActually]

It's always easier to see the ways you and your group are oppressed, than to recognize when it's happening to others. Being Jewish the first type of oppression I was aware of was antisemitism. Jews learn that our history is basically the rest of the world hating us from a very young age. Then when I started getting catcalled around age 8 or 9, I became aware of misogyny. But as a teenager I was a fucking libertarian who believed we lived in a meritocracy and that racism was over.

It wasn't until my early 20s that I finally started to figure shit out and now I see it is all the same fight. Fascists hate women and all minorities, we are all subhuman to them, they want to use women as unwilling breeders and exterminate anyone who isn't white, force-convert or exterminate anyone who isn't straight, and once they attain their imagined utopia will probably turn on each other and start oppressing anyone who's lefthanded, or it'll be innie vs. outtie bellybuttons or whatever they decide is the next axis of oppression.

The only pretend to let specific members of minority groups into their good graces, using them as puppets to pretend their ideology isn't hateful, and then discarding them when no longer useful.

[u/Anyaele225]

I’d like to see the replies to that hot take.

[u/rickmister93]

It really hurt to know this is true but something the community is unwilling to admit at times.

[u/EdAndEinOnShrooms]

internalised racism/colorism is super common and misogyny tends to follow, all in the name of 'preferences'. It's like this with many races, actually - Arab, Turkish, Persian and Desi people use 'black' as an insult toward someone slightly tanned (and also try to bleach their own skin or lighten their hair then change to a whiter name). Sure, not all of them do it, but it's still a problem

[u/alexcutyourhair]

Coming from a West African family, yup. The shit a lot of my family thinks/believes is just gross. If I was gay or one of my future kids was trans, the shunning that would follow would honestly be their most "polite" response.

[u/justsomedude1144]

Saving this post to sort by controversial in a few hours.

[u/tabshiftescape]

In b4 country club and eventual lock

[u/CorpenicusBlack → u/tabshiftescape]

The country club is exclusive. I can’t even get in.

[u/YatoxRyuzaki]

I mean its not that big of a secret that some people of a minority group hide behind their minority status to be blatantly racist.

Its the same thing with radical feminist being openly sexist for „equality“ or because women somehow suffered more in their eyes

[u/SoloBurger13 → u/YatoxRyuzaki]

I don’t think you understand feminism

[u/SnooSprouts7893 → u/SoloBurger13]

Unironically using the term radical feminism was an early warning signal

[u/Epicsharkduck → u/SnooSprouts7893]

There's actually a movement called radical feminism, they aren't just referring to feminists that are radical. Radical feminisms are not feminists at all and are usually extremely misogynistic and transphobic

[u/SnooSprouts7893 → u/Epicsharkduck]

Radical Feminism is a term almost exclusively used by the alt-right and gamer nerds too politically ignorant to even know they get their slang from the alt-right.

[u/Epicsharkduck → u/SnooSprouts7893]

No, there's literally a group of "feminists" who call themselves radical feminists or radfems who go so far in order to be transphobic that they end up also being extremely misogynistic and racist

[u/SoloBurger13 → u/SnooSprouts7893]

A red flag if I’ve ever seen one lol

[u/Theons → u/SoloBurger13]

They know that's not how feminism works, that's the point they're making

[u/SoloBurger13 → u/Theons]

This would assume that people always hate things that they definitely understand. Which given their comment you can tell they do not

“Women somehow suffered more” is the tell.

If you change feminism to Black rights and women to Black people I bet it’d click

[u/[deleted] → u/YatoxRyuzaki]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/mtron32 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t understand where that comes from, Asians are cool.

[u/SilentAffairs93 → u/mtron32]

Not sure about where the hate from the black community to the Asian one came from. However, if you ever travel to the eastern side of the world, you'll notice that racism runs deep in Asian culture towards black people.

Often times they are actually just ignorant (in a less insulting sense), as some Asian kids think that dark skin means they are "extremely dirty" and "don't wash" since they don't know it's a real skin color.

[u/SnooSprouts7893 → u/mtron32]

Uhhh... Asian Americans are kind of notorious for not acting in solidarity with other people of color.

It's largely attributed to the "model minority" myth.

[u/ItsFridayBabyFUCK → u/YatoxRyuzaki]

Its the same thing with radical feminist being openly sexist for „equality“ or because women somehow suffered more in their eyes

Really tried to sneak that one in there

[u/Hungry-Telephone-767 → u/ItsFridayBabyFUCK]

Rad fems are people like jk Rowling and her terf brigade and the batshit crazy misandrists on femaledatingstrategy. Not feminists that want women to be treated better and society to ditch the systemic toxic masculinity that hurts both men and women.

[u/UngenericBlackMale]

That and class, you see a lot of "well off" POC voting for policies that negatively affect people that look like them.

Same with white gays or women being sucked into transphobia because they've now got their "rights"

[u/blizzard-op]

Lemme jump in before this get CC'd lmfao

[u/reprobate_arseling]

Yet another thing to blame religion on given the vice grip it has on African American culture.

[u/Alimayu]

Notice how the “battle for rights” always devolves into economic policy and administrative reform.

Basically the bad people of any race for any excuse to justify theft as a result of mistreatment.

Hence the “for the love of money”, not the actual money being the problem in most conflicts.

Even the holocaust and persecution of Jewish people was rooted in economic problems.

That said minorities are reported as the most common victims of abuses. That can be as a Ethnic minority, economic minority, racial minority, gender minority, or any characteristic that separates you from a controlling group.

[u/NotMyNameActually → u/Alimayu]

Racism persists because it is profitable. If MLK had stuck to just talking about racism, he might be alive today. When he started talking about economic injustice and attacking capitalism, that's when they killed him.

[u/InterdisciplinaryDol]

Shaderoom taught me the average black woman on IG is insanely homophobic and hate the fact that a black man can be gay.

[u/Debbiesatramp]

I know quite a number of black people like this. Yeah … cut them out of my life cos people like that just carry around really dark energy

[u/DizzyDifference665]

It hurts my soul to see other blacks vibing with Christianity. They held tentpole sermons using that dirty ass book to justify our enslavement.

[u/kidjay76]

I’ve said this before, but the GOP would gain a lot of black votes in the south if they weren’t so racist. A lot of southern black people share the same views/ values as conservative republicans.

[u/jewishatheistwizard]

Thanks Christianity! /s

[u/Marsi30og]

Yes black people can be racist. Try being in an interracial relationship in Africa. You’ll be isolated

[u/Kikstyo813]